One of the most anticipated interviews of the election wasn’t recorded on a mainstream soundstage, or with a journalist at all. It was in a small studio in Austin, Texas with a comedian who announces mixed martial arts fights.
More than 10 million people viewed the “Joe Rogan Experience” interview with Donald Trump within the first 12 hours of it being posted on YouTube. The video had over 750,000 views in the first hour before the episode even made it to major podcast platforms, like Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
In an unstructured and candid three-hour conversation with Rogan, Trump came prepared, stuck to his classics and tried his best to get a coveted endorsement.
Rogan kicked off the podcast talking about the mainstream media’s pressure on Trump during his first days in the White House. Trump eventually ran the conversation into his generals, who he referred to as “great generals” and not “woke guys.” He said that the generals he liked pointed to Confederate general Robert E. Lee as a favorite historical figure “in terms of genius.”
“They’re going to take what you said about Robert E. Lee. ‘Oh, Donald Trump wishes the South won,’” Rogan said, returning to his criticism of mainstream media.
Rogan offered exactly what the Trump campaign wanted out of his now months-long podcast circuit, according to one Trump campaign official. He let the conversation with Trump play out, giving him a platform for his message with enough of a challenge to keep audiences interested, but not the hostility the official said comes from mainstream journalists.
And the platform is uniquely large: Rogan has 14.5 million Spotify followers and 17.5 million YouTube subscribers.
While he isn’t a public Trump supporter, Rogan was a friendly host to the former president.
“You’re not a Kamala person. You’re a Khabib person, but you’re not a Kamala person,” Trump said, appealing to Rogan’s love of combat sports.
Rogan never claims to uphold journalistic standards, but he did push Trump from time to time, enough that even Fox News took notice.
When Trump said he didn’t know why he “always got more publicity than other people,” Rogan quickly answered, “You said a lot of wild shit!”
“CNN, in all their brilliance, by highlighting your wild shit made you much more popular, and they boost you in the polls because people were tired of someone talking in this bullshit pre-prepared politician lingo,” Rogan said.
Rogan tried to keep the conversation on a loose track, but at times it strayed into what Trump might call “the wilderness” of banter. “We’re getting wide with this weave,” Rogan said, referencing how Trump has branded his approach to public speaking. “I want to bring it back to tariffs.”
But Trump wasn’t just there to be told how wild he is, or to be pushed back into more concise talking points. Rogan let him talk, and Trump did get to pontificate on some of his preferred issues, including international relationships and conflicts.
Trump’s desire to have more personal and direct conversations with some of the world’s most powerful, and viscous, leaders was a consistent theme. He told Rogan about talking with President Vladimir Putin of Russia, Xi Jinping of China, and of course Kim Jong-Un, the North Korean dictator.
“I got along great with him,” Trump said of Kim. “That’s a good thing. It’s not a bad thing.
It’s a great thing.”“I like how you called him little rocket man,” Rogan said chuckling.
Trump said he “kiddingly” would tell Kim that he had “beautiful beaches, nice beachfront property,” and that he should “just relax.”
Those tariffs Rogan had wanted to talk about came up in the discussion about global issues, too. Trump proudly detailed his threat of tariffs on other countries as one of his most leveraged diplomatic approaches.
“You know, we have tremendous power in the United States if you know how to use the power,” Trump said when Rogan asked about the conflict in Ukraine. “I stopped other wars just by the use of tariffs.”
France, not one of the opposing major nuclear powers that Trump often talks about, became the prime example, with Trump regaling Rogan with a supposed conversation he had had about taxation on U.S. imports with French President Emmanuel Macron.
“I said, Emmanuel, if you do that, I’m going to put 100% tariff when your wines and champagnes are coming to the United States,” Trump said. “And you’re going to regret that you ever did it.”While the tariff might be his biggest stick, Trump’s said he would keep his options open in how he would deal with the rest of the world if he returns to the White House.
“These guys are very smart. And they’re very streetwise. And they’re very tricky and evil and dangerous.”
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John T. Seward is a NOTUS reporter and an Allbritton Journalism Institute fellow.